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stainless prop

by ian h » 04 May 2017, 19:34

betty boop wrote:if u have a stainless & right dia - you could send it to Steel developments and get its re sized- shoot me down in flames if thats c@@p but Im sure I read it somewhere/told it. cost will be the same as a decent 2nd one though - hence my laser got sold for being to big-


Sorry would not touch them with a barge pole. sent them my 2 sets of duo props for a tidy up. Boat was doing 47 knots before they went away, Few dents and chips , When they came back boat will not do more than 43 knots :oops:
Phoned Steel developments and all they said is "must be engines" ha ha , they would not take responsibility for changing the cupping on props which my engineer picked up. Not impressed with them at all
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by betty boop » 04 May 2017, 19:47

ian h wrote:
betty boop wrote:if u have a stainless & right dia - you could send it to Steel developments and get its re sized- shoot me down in flames if thats c@@p but Im sure I read it somewhere/told it. cost will be the same as a decent 2nd one though - hence my laser got sold for being to big-


Sorry would not touch them with a barge pole. sent them my 2 sets of duo props for a tidy up. Boat was doing 47 knots before they went away, Few dents and chips , When they came back boat will not do more than 43 knots :oops:
Phoned Steel developments and all they said is "must be engines" ha ha , they would not take responsibility for changing the cupping on props which my engineer picked up. Not impressed with them at all


LOL to be fair I agree- I went to see Mrs SS once in Wandsworth as it was local and she was rude as hell. But they are almost the market leader/only choice- only other one I found was in Wales somewhere twice the price
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by ian h » 04 May 2017, 20:10

betty boop wrote:
ian h wrote:
betty boop wrote:if u have a stainless & right dia - you could send it to Steel developments and get its re sized- shoot me down in flames if thats c@@p but Im sure I read it somewhere/told it. cost will be the same as a decent 2nd one though - hence my laser got sold for being to big-


Sorry would not touch them with a barge pole. sent them my 2 sets of duo props for a tidy up. Boat was doing 47 knots before they went away, Few dents and chips , When they came back boat will not do more than 43 knots :oops:
Phoned Steel developments and all they said is "must be engines" ha ha , they would not take responsibility for changing the cupping on props which my engineer picked up. Not impressed with them at all


LOL to be fair I agree- I went to see Mrs SS once in Wandsworth as it was local and she was rude as hell. But they are almost the market leader/only choice- only other one I found was in Wales somewhere twice the price


I have been recommended another couple of places near south coast. and also the owner of the Red Hunton said he will sort them out for me . He tweaked his props and increased top speed :D

After the hassle I spoke to previous owner of my boat whom said he had to send the props back to SD 4 times before they got them right !!
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by Ianfs » 04 May 2017, 20:27

My new engine is over propped with a 14.5 " x 21" pitch Ali fitted - max revs I can achieve is 5,000 whereas WOT range is 5-6000 rpm.


That's one hell of a prop, 14.5 x 21, I would think it is normally a sterndrive prop size, slower turning with more grunt. Turning at about 2,000 rpm and about 80% grip (big estimate), this propeller would give 34.5 mph, which roughly works out at a 2.5 : 1 gear reduction for your engine if you're engine is revving at 5,000rpm at that speed. It's usually recognised that for every inch of pitch change you get 200rpm either way. A 19" pitch of the same dia, would therefore give you 5,400rpm or 2160 revs at the prop, assuming I have guessed the reduction correctly. Based on my simple calculations, I think a 19" would require a slightly smaller diameter to achieve a speed increase. There is also the theory that a Stainless propeller of the same pitch as an Aluminium one doesn't flex as much under load, consequently it is thought in some circles that a 19" pitch Stainless is the equivalent of a 21" Aluminium. Some people also say that choosing a propeller is like choosing a gear in a gearbox, I'm not so sure about this, because different makes and types of propeller have different size blades, rake, cupping etc. and I have never seen this in gearboxes. :mrgreen:

So throwing in my two penn'th, I would think you would want a 13 1/4 - 13.5 x 17 , if you want to get up to top end revs. This prop should give you your revs and get you to about 33knots.
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by betty boop » 05 May 2017, 07:58

Ian you sound like an expert so whats your thoughts on mine, :lol: Ive considered learning brain surgery as it will be easier than figuring out prop size calculations :lol: not too concerned with increasing the top end - just a good all rounder will do - here are the facts.

4.3MPI - Alpha 2 (gear ratio unknown) - length 22 ft

Ali prop works well and sized at 14 1/2 x 19. (Mercury prop selector recommends a 14/19 SS but I seem to be the only one

I did have a laser 2 SS on Betty labelled 21P (not sure on the diameter) when we ran it on the new boat she chime walked and had a lean to one side at medium & high revs. I was told it was incorrectly sized so never used it again and sold it.

Now I need a SS prop as we are in constant shallow water up here and need the degree of durability SS offers.

Stu has offered me a Laser2 21P for his 5.7 MPI - will this have the same affect as before or (I assume it is a smaller diameter)?

A guy on the rally FB page has offered me a high 5 21P but I dont think 5 blades as an all rounder works for me.
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by NickT » 05 May 2017, 11:07

Hi Ian,

Thanks for your views and calculations.

I can't get smaller than around 14" diameter prop but I think perhaps a 4" pitch reduction (x200rpm) @17" may get me closer to WOT.

If 17" is too much the other way, I can always settle at 19"!!

Thanks
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by shibbs » 05 May 2017, 21:14

betty boop wrote:Ian you sound like an expert


I agree, the calculations for props confuse the hell out of me.. Literally wouldn't know where to start.
I've been through all this in the past with mine, not achieving full range of RPM. That was why i got so many different props but i went back to the High 5 as it offered the best performance and usability out of all i tried.

Good luck to all trying in getting it right. ;)
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by Ianfs » 08 May 2017, 13:02

Ian you sound like an expert


Ha ha, well certainly if an ex is a "has been" and a spirt a "drip under pressure" that's me. :lol: :lol:

For normal mass produced average boats it's not the black art that most people imagine it to be, however switch to Formula 1 or offshore power boats and the ball park changes. I've had some very interesting conversations with race engineers who are constantly trying to manage the outside of the envelope when it comes to drives etc. So it doesn't surprise me when Ianh got his props back from Steel Developments and found they had altered them and then had the audacity to blame the sudden lack of speed on the engines, which, on their own had miraculously decided to lose power........ha ha as if? The bigger you go in terms of production pleasure boats the fewer choices there are; the engine manufacturer will specify propeller size.

I had a very interesting chat a few years ago with one of the Quicksilver Prop Engineers, he said all blade sizes and diameters are different depending type you chose. For example, if a High Five had the same blade size and diameter as an average 3 blade say 14 1/4" x 21p it would probably spin at half the revs (a slight exaggeration but a good illustration). Laser11's are raked for bow lift and primarily designed for high speeds and outboards. Although, I have a Laser 11 on my boat, its not the best for that type, but its great for towing and going reasonably fast.

Most manufacturers will build a propeller suitable for certain types of engines and power range and adjust the diameters and blade sizes to suit, maybe even giving a small selection of diameters depending upon the speed at which the prop spins. So you can narrow it down to one or two in order to get what you want.

I was surprised when I was told that remarkably a propeller doesn't slip as much as you think once moving, assuming its the right one of course. For example, if we knew NickT's gear ratio,(I guessed it, but was probably way out :D ) given that his engine was revving to 4,000rpm at WOT and he was travelling at 30knts, we could calculate the slip, easily. Assuming the 21" pitched prop was in a solid, it would move 21" on a full rotation. Therefore at 30knts or 34.5mph, that is 2,185,920 ins an hour, divide this by 60 , 36,432, then divide by the prop pitch and you get 1,734 revs per minute at the prop assuming its in a solid.

Betty Boops Alpha One Gen 11 drive should be 1.81, therefore at WOT his 4.3 is something like 4,500-4,800 rpm, which means his prop is spinning at 2,486 rpm at 4.500revs. That's 52,206 ins per min assuming his prop is in a solid, 3,132360 ins per hour, divided by 63,360 ( the number of inches in a mile), then theoretically his boat would be doing 49.37mph. If its only doing 40mph then his slip is 19%. I'm not entirely sure but I think this should be closer to 10%.

Have you fallen asleep yet?
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by betty boop » 09 May 2017, 15:08

OK - I got that - whens the exam :-) A called a prop main dealer in wales somewhere and he told me to stick to what I had on there as a safe option obviously he then tried to sell me a prop at £400 BUT as pure luck would have it there was a stainless laser 11 for sale in Torquay on ebay - 10 min from ones father - so he's been dispatched to pick it up tomorrow. £60 = a bargain. :lol:

Edit - only one snag - its hub is for a Volvo SX - I did think had the same spline as the Alpha 1 at 19 but apparently not -
are all the spline hubs the same or can I knock out the one on my old Solas or Apollo Prop and reuse it in the Laser? or does any one have a Laser hub for sale? :-)
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by Ianfs » 09 May 2017, 21:39

Why do you particularly want a Laser 11 Ian?
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