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Auto reverse brakes issue

by argonaut » 12 May 2018, 17:17

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Have Indespension Super Roller Coaster 5.5 twin axle trailer.
Brakes are Al-Ko overrun brakes as on many UK trailers.

Braking & hand brake working fine.
But on reversing once the hydraulic hitch coupling comes to end of its travel it locks on the brakes ... they are not ‘tripping out’ the shoes via the auto reverse function. As I have a sloped drive - they lock on as soon as I try reversing up it.

If I disconnect from car ... I can pull trailer up drive fine with my winch ... so confirms the brakes are not app,Yong other than from road actuator, and Auto-reverse not tripping ... going backwards should force trailing shoe into cam and release the braking effect.

Checked adjustment of brakes 4 times, all seems fine.
The compensator bar where the 4 Bowden cables connect ... has a rod down to the ‘S pawl’ operating lever on hitch.
As rod adjuster was corroded.. replaced both adjuster and clevis assemly (both ends) ends and the 2 rods, set up for zero play.

Still the same ....

Apart from cleaning you don’t adjust (none possible anyway) the auto reverse cam & spring.

Anybody any suggestions,
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by Ianfs » 13 May 2018, 08:56

Hey Argonaut

I think I may have the answer to your problem, assuming of course that I have read your post correctly. :) I expect you are frustrated with this as I know you have written many articles about trailer servicing and I bet you know the brakes inside out.

I have found that trailers with overrun brakes require fine adjustments to the brake rod or cable (depending upon the make). Assuming you have adjusted the brakes on the drums which I think you said you've done 4 times, these will come on when the "tow shaft" pushes the "overrun lever" backwards and they should be adjusted to bring on the brakes when the "tow shaft" is at the last bit of its travel.

As you undoubtedly know if this is adjusted so that the brakes are pulled on to early in the "tow shaft" travel you get kangarooing, where the brakes operate then release during light braking because the boat and trailer brake faster than the car thus releasing the brakes on off on off. But when reversing this also has the effect of initially in the first few feet of operating the cams but because there is too much pressure exerted by the "tow shaft" pulling on the "brake rod" the brakes lock on.

Therefore Rick I'm guessing you will have to play with the rod adjuster at the hitch end in order to get the "brake rod" adjustment to a point where it will give good forward braking but also clearance for the shoes to clear the drums when the cams auto operate. As an aside, most trailer manufacturers suggest that brakes in the drums are adjusted by tightening fully then releasing so they just clear the drums. I have found that you have to fettle the clearance with the rod adjustment to get the balance between good forward braking and the cam operating when reversing.

I hope this all makes sense my friend? :)
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by argonaut » 13 May 2018, 11:57

Logically makes sense ... but if you take up all the play at compensator end ... I don’t see anything to adjust at coupling end.
The rod goes straight into clevis swivel ... if I slacken that off it will put play in at compensator end ?

The Clevis pin is on lower half of an S pawl, that is it fixed around the rotation pin position ... obviously I can tighten up nut at compensator end, it is set to give no play (as manual advise)
If I slacken off nut to give more play ... the rod will will be too loose ... sag & rattle.

I just took off hubs again ... all correct and all auto-reverse cams will operate if pushed.
So must be setting of actuating rod, or the coupling.
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by Ianfs » 13 May 2018, 13:44

Ok well some have adjustment at both ends for ease of adjustment. I don't really think it matters if you can only adjust it at the compensator as long as it is adjusted to the stupidly fine tolerance that's required.
And yes you're right don't slacken the nut at the clevis pin end.
Are you able to push in the coupling to it's stop point. If so adjust the rod to make the brakes come on at the last bit then adjust it a little more. It's a bit of a pain but you will have a fine line between good forward braking and being able to reverse and the brakes binding in reverse.
Hope that all makes sense.
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by argonaut » 13 May 2018, 17:09

Thnx .... will try again.
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by Bigplumbs » 13 May 2018, 17:58

I feel your pain. I hate trailer brakes with a passion. It is my view that they cause far more problems than any benefit that they are supposed to bring, and once dunked in the sea well we know what that does.

Just spent most of the day fitting a new hitch end to mine

Dennis
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by argonaut » 13 May 2018, 19:40

I had a US trailer on one boat .... massively better than British trailers in all ways.
Folding tongue, stainless disc brakes, full length support bunks., big snubber Roller under the winch .

Twin axles trailers also have an issue that one axle works against other when reversing a turn. This means one axle has to crab and almost go sideways against the tyre wall.

Was talking to one guy who was involved in designing plane ‘ tugs’ He said that a German manufacturer at a trade show demonstrated a twin axle trailer where the rear axle had ability to free swivel steer when reversing, only by around 15 degrees ... but that reduced the turning effort when reversing by 75%.
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by Bigplumbs » 14 May 2018, 16:06

I bought a complete new Knott Axle about 3 years ago and new brake cables. The Brakes and cables are now all had it because of the salt water. Even though I flush them every time

I have just returned from Indespension £145 lighter with a load of parts I don't think will last 2 years. This year I am going to spray the inside of my breaks through a little hole at the back with WD40 each time I get home from using it.

So with the new head this has cost me £ 350. Nice this boating lark

Don't much care about the actual braking efficiency as my Disco will easily stop my 1000 kg boat, I just don't want them all seized up.

There must be a better answer than what we have here in the UK

Dennis
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by ChrisH » 14 May 2018, 17:42

Bigplumbs wrote:I bought a complete new Knott Axle about 3 years ago and new brake cables. The Brakes and cables are now all had it because of the salt water. Even though I flush them every time

I have just returned from Indespension £145 lighter with a load of parts I don't think will last 2 years. This year I am going to spray the inside of my breaks through a little hole at the back with WD40 each time I get home from using it.

So with the new head this has cost me £ 350. Nice this boating lark

Don't much care about the actual braking efficiency as my Disco will easily stop my 1000 kg boat, I just don't want them all seized up.

There must be a better answer than what we have here in the UK

Dennis
Have you tried saltaway.
I used this on my boat last year after everyouting. Like spray with the hose pipe attachment and dissolved all the salt lovely. So should also work on your hubs.

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by Bigplumbs » 14 May 2018, 18:39

Argo. Having just replaced my brake shoes I wonder if you have the shoe that should be on the front on the back.

See thread and video here

http://www.rib.net/forum/f49/many-thank ... post771711
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