British boat building....is it dying?

[Ianfs]

Whilst I’ve been looking for a new boat, well used actually but it will be new to me, I have come across various news articles about the UK boating industry and how the big 4 have not looked as rosey as their PR people make out.

OK so a while ago now, we lost Sealine, now part of the Hanse Group and making more in the range than they did when they took over, Sunseeker on the brink were saved by the Chinese, Princess Yachts, owned by a French company, laid of staff last year just before Christmas and again in July and now I read Fairline have been bought by The Wessex Group and laid off a third of the workforce.

Some of you may be surprised, I know I was, when I looked up how many boat builders there are in the UK, still going, apart from the other four. Here are only a few……
Birchwood, Hunton, Hardy, Fletcher, Oyster Yachts, Shetland, Haines, Lochin, Ring, Redbay, Ribquest, Humber, Safehaven, Orkney, Stanley & Thomas, UK Water Taxi’s, Gamrie, Boat Mouldings UK, Cockwells Tenders, Williams, Scorpion, Jcrafts Ltd, Pembroke Sports Boats, Watermarque, Ribeye, HM Powerboats, Trusty…..the list goes on.

Sealine didn’t make it to the recession of 2006, but the others made it through and displayed some great boats at the show this year, all luxury boats/yachts. The recession has gone, there are more millionaires in the world now.

Surely it’s not because they are building bigger and bigger boats? Or have they gone the way of the banks and not got the financial capital to cope with low volume times? I did have a long conversation with one of the guys from Sunseeker which included why they should want upfront/stage payments from new buyers and he was very cagey with his answers. However this is the way it's done with boat builders when you buy a large boat. Unlike the smaller builders who build them then sell them as a stock item, albeit the larger craft a sort of bespoke.

Maybe large yachts are not in any more, so makes me wonder, could they downsize their brands? Have they had supply problems? Have the businesses been badly run? Are they too difficult to build quickly and require a large workforce when busy, but not when quiet?

[BruceK]

When you look back at when boating had it's hey day, the vessels were not as big on average as they are today. Bottom line from this idiot is that everyone suddenly wants to immitate the billionaires and Monta Carlo set with their very own mini mega yacht 1/10th scale. These mini bad boys going to set you back 1.5 million but you'll tell your mates 2. So unless you were comfortably a millionaire that's a big chunk off your readies. Then the bloody things cost you 10% of their hull value per year to maintain not including berthing costs so slap 200k on that p.a.. Now I dont know where you live but there isn't an awful lot of marina's that can stack these boats where I do, so the aspiring Jones ships them to the Med where he can catch first class flights down 1 week in the year in his 60hr/week job that takes no prisoners. Now that's a big spend and he didn't get to be a millionaire by being extravagent. Right about now he's no longer a millionaire and is kicking his heels for day dreaming when he should have been working. There the boat languishes cause he's a stubborn git and doesn't admit to defeat and he has developed this attachment to it, it gets a bit bleached in the sun and voila 8 years on he's struggling to sell it for 1/10th it's value because other johny come latelies wouldn't dream of buying a shabby old 8 year old. Not good for the image, but us working bastards want it for sub 100k because it's a bit old now and we cant afford to fix the neglect but are too happy to take a slice out of the jet set in South of France.
So if you buy a boat for 1.5 million you basically throw it away for pennies and that's a bitter pill to swallow.

There are more millionaires today than ever before, but the earnings gap is too large to support a healthy second hand market and this makes the initial investment a very bad one. It's not like the property ladder, the only direction is down. Leisure boats imo were I a boat builder, would be predominantly in the 10m class. Hey, isn't that the case in America? Sea Ray, Bayliner etc? Cheap, cheerful, churned out in vast quantities and disposable within 10 years. I hear they're doing rather well.

[Xboatboyx]

Hey, isn't that the case in America? Sea Ray, Bayliner etc? Cheap, cheerful, churned out in vast quantities and disposable within 10 years. I hear they're doing rather well.

Actually I don't think the American brands have done too well in recent years with dealers in the UK going bust i.e Monterey and Crownline. Bayliner also scaled back during the recession and moved manufacturing abroad to brazil and Poland, although Bayliner have reintroduced small cruisers now. The trouble is American boats get very expensive once they come over here with small bowriders getting on for 30k new and cruisers 80k, and for that you can get decent used Sealine S34s which are much better suited for UK waters.

[BruceK]

I'd agree with you in part. American boat builders are building largely for their home market. As for them not being suited to our waters I have got to ask. Have you heard that, or experienced that? And if so on what basis? No disrespect but I've heard a lot of junk being repeated as gospel. They are not built to the same longevity and quality, sure. I can go with that. Sort of. After all I hoon about in an american built Formula 34, built back in 1992 and still it out paces and goes out when the Fairlines etc and Euro assortments hide in the marina. We feel comfortable enough to venture out in an F6 in the Irish Sea. That's sometimes the best weather we get all month! And for a 22 year old boat she still has managed to be centre stage of most pics taken of Conwy estuary etcetera. This month alone she has featured as a backdrop on tv and seperately on a national rag, so she's no eyesore either.

Here we're off to Caernafon for evening dinner. F6 1.5 meter swell with a 4 second period. Business as usual





edit. What am I doing wrong re embedding vids?

[Xboatboyx]

Nothing wrong with American boats and quality at all. I was trying to say that you can get more Used bigger boats for your money which will be more ideal for the UK weather rather than getting something newer but smaller which you can't use as much or are limited to good days only.

BTW i own a Regal American sportsboat which i absolutely love so I'm all for American sports boats/cruisers and wish there was more of them in the UK.

[mlines]

You just use the "code" part ie. A0L00nQdlnw

And you definitely got the wrong end of the stick if you think "Mr V8" doesn't like American boats!

[BruceK]

Well the Formula is an express cruiser. No sedan and we ARE out on her every weekend. I really dont get the weather bit, back in May we all snuggled up with the kids and watched dvds while it was gusting 89mph down the estuary. Canvass it turns out is perfectly adequate provided you don't open a flap to have a fag. I'm not precious about it though. I could go for a sedan but I don't rate it better. And Flybridges on sub 33 footers so they can have their cake and eat it when it comes to deck space? Oh boy. You dont see it in the vid but the boat in front but Madam fell off and took a tumble halfway down the gangway. The Irish Sea close period swells aren't kind to them tallboys, helluva cosy in the marina though. So it had better be a much bigger old sedan and Flybridge to tempt me.

[Ianfs]

Interesting comments....

When you look back at when boating had it's hey day, the vessels were not as big on average as they are today

I think this is where I was going with my thoughts. When Robert Braithwaite started out in 1969 with his brother John, they built small runabouts, presumably to get them started, but they did really well with the Mexico and Portofino later on, the biggest selling boat they ever had was the Portofino and I am sure the fact that Don Shead was on board (excuse the unintentional pun) also added fast with chic to the mix, potential owners would be buying into a powerboat design.

We don't seem to have a boat builder, apart from Fletcher making sub 30 foot cruisers/weekenders that I can think of immediately. There are lots of river craft builders making them, Shetland for one, but if someone wanted say a new 25 footer with performance, I'm guessing it would be American or European.

XboatboyX's remarks about American boats on our waters probably referred more towards their smaller lake boats rather than their larger cruisers. Although I have to say watching the video's of John Boyle in his Sealine 34, I was amazed at how it slammed so much in a moderate sea and with how much water came over the bows. However, he only picked up on putting up canvas half way through one of his trips, you've gotta love him though.

So for me, what Bruce said earlier about the big four builders today making Monte Carlo lookalikes at the £1.5m mark makes sense. I remember a friend of mine back in the early 90's telling me he had just bought a Camargue, I think it was a 44, used it a few times and wanted a bigger one. I suppose this mind set pushed Builders into building larger craft, albeit at the time London money brokers were going bankrupt with a recession well on the way.

So I wonder if they have looked ahead and seen a market still trending towards larger boats/yachts or will they downsize and maybe attack the 12.5 million boats owned in America? I'm guessing Europe wont be a good market at the moment.

[BruceK]

Although written tongue in cheek, I was being serious.

Take a look at this absolute beauty for £189k. Only got 300 hours in 10 years and now resorting to ebay to sell it. Sad really. It'll go eventually for £150k

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sunseeker-Pre ... Swo6lWO~G4

[BruceK]

Interesting comments....

When you look back at when boating had it's hey day, the vessels were not as big on average as they are today

I think this is where I was going with my thoughts. When Robert Braithwaite started out in 1969 with his brother John, they built small runabouts, presumably to get them started, but they did really well with the Mexico and Portofino later on, the biggest selling boat they ever had was the Portofino and I am sure the fact that Don Shead was on board (excuse the unintentional pun) also added fast with chic to the mix, potential owners would be buying into a powerboat design.

...........

Poole Boats biggest was the Offshore 25, which when they received the corporate backing of investors to make for the Med market abecame briefly the Offshore 31 and then shortly after the Portofino and Sunseeker name which differs by having an emphasis more on cockpit space yet essentially a stretched out Offshore 25 still. By the time the Portofino came to market the 80's economic boom was well in place and the boats started getting bigger rapidly.

(accidently sent this as a pm. STill getting used to forum. sorry)