• Boat Banter

It is currently 29 Mar 2024, 10:09
  • View new posts
  • View unanswered posts
  • Who is online
  • In total there are 44 users online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 44 guests (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
  • Most users ever online was 1736 on 21 Nov 2020, 15:51
  • Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 44 guests

Motor Boat Forum

Auto reverse brakes issue

by argonaut » 01 Jun 2018, 21:11

Tried again tonight ... another 4Hrs

Put trailer on stands so all 4 wheels clear of the ground.
Applied handbrake .. can’t turn wheels in reverse
Added play into actuating rod until I could rotate in reverse, around 30mm of play. Way too much as rod sags, but did it as a test.

Hooked up car .... same problem, rear wheels locking up.

Spoke to a 2 trailer mechanics who said better to manufacture a clip to put in place to prevent compression of coupling., and thus preventing brakes coming on.
This was way reversing was dealt with prior to these auto reverse systems .... posh 8nstalls even had a solenoid operated clip so it could be applied at flickmof a switch.
Last edited by argonaut on 02 Jun 2018, 20:11, edited 1 time in total.
FourWinns H210, Volvo 280-C-N duoprop, Monster MTK tower, SBS 2600 twin axle trailer
Tow Vehicle - Landrover Discovery Sport
User avatar
argonaut
Sub Lieutenant
Sub Lieutenant
 
Posts: 532
Joined: 26 Nov 2014, 11:18

by Ianfs » 02 Jun 2018, 10:30

Sure I can't tempt you to come down ? ...... sort trailer, out on the water, BBQ .... could meet 1/2 way, or come down and stay overnight 


Tempting I have to say. :D

Didn't mention this previously but the hand brake has an energy store. It's the hydraulic damper you feel when you pull it on. The energy store prevents the trailer rolling backwards from the auto reverse brakes releasing, which is why you should not be able to turn the wheels when it's on.

The handbrake should be off when adjusting brakes. If you can, attach a ratchet strap or something similar to the tow hitch in order to compress the draw rod fully to it's stop. Slacker off the brake rod first in order that brakes don't apply at all. Then tighten the brake rod until it's taught whilst the draw rod is still at full compression. Release the strap from the tow hitch and let it extend. The brake rod will of course go slack then adjust the rod at the compensatory end up by approx 3cms. Use the strap again to tighten the draw rod fully and check if the wheels turn. The brakes should start to apply when the draw shaft is almost at the end of it's travel. When you have got the right amount of brake rod adjustment the brakes will apply fully at the end of draw shaft travel and once engaged you should be able to turn the wheels in reverse.

And yes I remember towing horse trailers with the pin for reversing. A much better idea and cheaper for buying brakes. :D
Ianfs
Captain
Captain
 
Posts: 2055
Joined: 24 Nov 2014, 18:40
Location: Hampshire, by the Sea

by argonaut » 02 Jun 2018, 10:43

Ianfs wrote:
Sure I can't tempt you to come down ? ...... sort trailer, out on the water, BBQ .... could meet 1/2 way, or come down and stay overnight 
Didn't mention this previously but the hand brake has an energy store.

- ES spring System action aware of, but realistically it has less force than the 2.2 T of trailer compressing the coupling while going backwards up a slope. In any event slackening off rod did not allow reversing .

It's the hydraulic damper you feel when you pull it on.

I’ll try and follow what you say below – but I am losing it a bit ….

The handbrake should be off when adjusting brakes. – agreed and that is what I do – coupling fully fwd, handbrake off.

...compress the draw rod fully to it's stop. Slacker off the brake rod first in order that brakes don't apply at all. Then tighten the brake rod until it's taught whilst the draw rod is still at full compression.
Release the strap from the tow hitch and let it extend. The brake rod will of course go slack then adjust the rod at the compensatory end up by approx 3cms.
This is the odd bit – AlKo & Indespension say zero play ….. 3cm of play means the rod would be sagging considerably (I tried)
Use the strap again to tighten the draw rod fully and check if the wheels turn. The brakes should start to apply when the draw shaft is almost at the end of it's travel. When you have got the right amount of brake rod adjustment the brakes will apply fully at the end of draw shaft travel and once engaged you should be able to turn the wheels in reverse.

There is only one adjustment point, for the rod- the cone nut at the compensator bar, the manuals state to set up when brakes are not applied – i.e. coupling not compressed.
You seem to be saying set up with coupling fully compressed and adjust slack out of rod at that point until brakes are applied., then after releasing coupling put 3cm play in it.

That would mean braking only happens when coupling at end of travel ….. to me it looks like the mechanical design (and set up guide) brake is applied at start of travel, (see 3 guides attached)


Though if you think it worth doing it the other way round I can try – just trying to understand before I spend another 4 Hrs on this.
. :D


Really frustrating. .... had 2 other boating buddies look at this as well, in case I was missing something... still no joy.

invite still open. :-)


AlKo set up guide - https://www.dropbox.com/s/6v32euz7k1kdx ... 9.pdf?dl=0

AlKo service guide - https://www.dropbox.com/s/azjn9etaukvd6 ... e.pdf?dl=0

Indespension rod setting - https://www.dropbox.com/s/qlavakirxfqeg ... s.pdf?dl=0
FourWinns H210, Volvo 280-C-N duoprop, Monster MTK tower, SBS 2600 twin axle trailer
Tow Vehicle - Landrover Discovery Sport
User avatar
argonaut
Sub Lieutenant
Sub Lieutenant
 
Posts: 532
Joined: 26 Nov 2014, 11:18

by Ianfs » 03 Jun 2018, 07:47

OK so all the instructions say that you've adjusted everything correctly.
Consequently something cannot be working properly.

In an earlier post you said that on the flat when reversing you thought the draw shaft wasn't depressed enough for the brakes to engage before it all moved backwards. However when reversing into drive it was fully depressed and brakes locked.

I would now having adjusted everything to Indespension/Alko instructions, whilst on axles, depress the draw shaft fully (as I suggested previously with a strap or similar and you must get it fully depressed to simulate reversing into your drive) so that the brakes are locked, then try turning the rear axle wheels in reverse. If everything is working properly you should be able to turn the wheels. If not then there is something wrong with the cams.
I did see in one of the pictures you posted that you had painted the backplates and cams. So I'm now wondering if the paint is making them stick and not operate correctly.
Ianfs
Captain
Captain
 
Posts: 2055
Joined: 24 Nov 2014, 18:40
Location: Hampshire, by the Sea

by argonaut » 03 Jun 2018, 17:53

Ianfs wrote:OK so all the instructions say that you've adjusted everything correctly.
Consequently something cannot be working properly.

In an earlier post you said that on the flat when reversing you thought the draw shaft wasn't depressed enough for the brakes to engage before it all moved backwards. However when reversing into drive it was fully depressed and brakes locked.

I would now having adjusted everything to Indespension/Alko instructions, whilst on axles, depress the draw shaft fully (as I suggested previously with a strap or similar and you must get it fully depressed to simulate reversing into your drive) so that the brakes are locked, then try turning the rear axle wheels in reverse. If everything is working properly you should be able to turn the wheels. If not then there is something wrong with the cams.
I did see in one of the pictures you posted that you had painted the backplates and cams. So I'm now wondering if the paint is making them stick and not operate correctly.


Did not paint the cams though, nor any part that moves ..... they were painted 3 seasons ago .... and been working fine since.
Last edited by argonaut on 04 Jun 2018, 15:49, edited 1 time in total.
FourWinns H210, Volvo 280-C-N duoprop, Monster MTK tower, SBS 2600 twin axle trailer
Tow Vehicle - Landrover Discovery Sport
User avatar
argonaut
Sub Lieutenant
Sub Lieutenant
 
Posts: 532
Joined: 26 Nov 2014, 11:18

by Ianfs » 04 Jun 2018, 06:47

Did not paint the cans though, nor any part that moves ..... they were painted 3 seasons ago .... and been working fine since.


Ok well that screws up that theory then. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Now I'm stuck. :?

Except to try jacking trailer again and pulling the draw shaft back fully and trying to turn the wheels in reverse.

Ooo, just had another thought. What about this....
Let's say everything is adjusted correctly. But when reversing because the front wheels don't engage cams for reverse mode, only rear ones, what if because of this the draw shaft doesn't reach its end of travel and therefore locks the rear brakes.
Ianfs
Captain
Captain
 
Posts: 2055
Joined: 24 Nov 2014, 18:40
Location: Hampshire, by the Sea

by mlines » 04 Jun 2018, 07:03

With these sort of things I end up putting a value on my time, how much would I pay myself to do it.

Then I pop down to a trailer specialist and have a beer whilst they sort it.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
Regal 2250 - "Witch Way" - MMSI:235073628
My Regal 2250
User avatar
mlines
Sub Lieutenant
Sub Lieutenant
 
Posts: 625
Joined: 25 Nov 2014, 17:54
Location: Wokingham, Berkshire

by argonaut » 04 Jun 2018, 15:50

I agree ... though Indespension can't look at it for another 2 weeks ....
FourWinns H210, Volvo 280-C-N duoprop, Monster MTK tower, SBS 2600 twin axle trailer
Tow Vehicle - Landrover Discovery Sport
User avatar
argonaut
Sub Lieutenant
Sub Lieutenant
 
Posts: 532
Joined: 26 Nov 2014, 11:18

by argonaut » 04 Jun 2018, 15:53

Ianfs wrote:
Let's say everything is adjusted correctly. But when reversing because the front wheels don't engage cams for reverse mode, only rear ones, what if because of this the draw shaft doesn't reach its end of travel and therefore locks the rear brakes.


Also I suppose if Coupling is doing something it shouldn't ..... but how do I confirm ... expensive part to buy.
FourWinns H210, Volvo 280-C-N duoprop, Monster MTK tower, SBS 2600 twin axle trailer
Tow Vehicle - Landrover Discovery Sport
User avatar
argonaut
Sub Lieutenant
Sub Lieutenant
 
Posts: 532
Joined: 26 Nov 2014, 11:18

by argonaut » 04 Jun 2018, 15:56

You going to love this scenario .....

Yesterday launched boat great day on water .......... when I cam to hook up trailer - it would not roll forwards !
(Handbrake off) it would roll backwards was enough.

Figure that ?

Managed to get car hooked up and power of car over rode what ever was causing it ..... feel like scrapping this trailer.
FourWinns H210, Volvo 280-C-N duoprop, Monster MTK tower, SBS 2600 twin axle trailer
Tow Vehicle - Landrover Discovery Sport
User avatar
argonaut
Sub Lieutenant
Sub Lieutenant
 
Posts: 532
Joined: 26 Nov 2014, 11:18

PreviousNext

Return to Motor Boat Forum

cron

User Menu