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by Ianfs » 21 Jun 2018, 12:02

Yes that's exactly right.

And that's what I meant when I mentioned the difference between a Raster Chart (paper mostly, some electronic) and Vector charts (mostly electronic). As you see on the paper chart the channel is reasonably obvious. Oh and I'm guessing your Navionics is set to feet? :mrgreen:

img Selsey001.pdf
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Vector charts were the problem for the Volvo yacht when it hit a reef a few years ago. All crew survived. Now these guys have sailed thousands of miles and their navigational skills are celestial in comparison to, for example a Yachtmaster, except that on this night the navigator was pre occupied with a boat flying along at silly speeds and thought he had checked the charts properly and in fact he had. The reef wasn't on the charts, or was it. Had he had the time to check the Raster charts, or in fact zoom right in as far as possible, there it was, quite a big reef which should have shown itself on a simple zoom. What it boiled down to in the end was at what point did the reef show up on his chart and who decides at which point or zoom does it show, that appears to be the software providers. I'm not sure what the outcome of the investigation was but if I remember rightly the navigator was not blamed.

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by ChrisH » 21 Jun 2018, 16:31

Yep I set it to feet. I like old school :-)

See your point re the 2 types of charts ian :-) thanks

Anyway, it's all in vein. After chasing the broker today (yawn) , they still have problems with the boat. Still won't power up to speed like it should.
Now they are saying it might be the wrong prop - they just noticed it is a 4 blade and not a 3, or it could be a slipped prop.

I'm pretty certain that the prop was not slipping when I sea trialed her. Had this on my old boat last year and it's a very obvious symptom.
As for the prop. I would say that unless someone has put a massively incorrect prop on, it would not cause the boat to struggle to get on the plane and over 3000 rpm. Right ?

And apparently their engineer is fully booked next week.
Putting the pressure on them now for a quick resolution or I am going to walk. This purchase now has a very bad feeling about it.!

Got Tompa sill involved and advising too.
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by shibbs » 21 Jun 2018, 18:30

That’s a real shame chris, really frustrating.
For what’s its worth, I had similar symptoms a while back and it took me literally a couple of years to finally figure the problem. Mine would plane and maintain 28 knots, just wouldn’t rev over 3000rpm.
Lots of contributing factors in the end and luckily, all work done by myself ( with a hell of a lot of ideas / info and advice on here) but would have cost a fortune to have done the amount of fault finding it took by a professional.
Anyway, I hope it all turns around and works out but I know what you mean about the bad feeling.
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by shibbs » 21 Jun 2018, 18:33

Ianfs wrote:Yes that's exactly right.

And that's what I meant when I mentioned the difference between a Raster Chart (paper mostly, some electronic) and Vector charts (mostly electronic). As you see on the paper chart the channel is reasonably obvious. Oh and I'm guessing your Navionics is set to feet? :mrgreen:

img Selsey001.pdf


Vector charts were the problem for the Volvo yacht when it hit a reef a few years ago. All crew survived. Now these guys have sailed thousands of miles and their navigational skills are celestial in comparison to, for example a Yachtmaster, except that on this night the navigator was pre occupied with a boat flying along at silly speeds and thought he had checked the charts properly and in fact he had. The reef wasn't on the charts, or was it. Had he had the time to check the Raster charts, or in fact zoom right in as far as possible, there it was, quite a big reef which should have shown itself on a simple zoom. What it boiled down to in the end was at what point did the reef show up on his chart and who decides at which point or zoom does it show, that appears to be the software providers. I'm not sure what the outcome of the investigation was but if I remember rightly the navigator was not blamed.



Similar to what happened to HMS Nottingham a while back. She kit a rock and suffered significant damage.
As I understand it this was caused by the wrong scale of chart being used and a pencil line being drawn straight over the top of the rock. Really bad luck, a couple of hundred yards either way and it would have been fine!
I think the outcome of that was promotion for the skipper and navigator! :lol:
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by Ianfs » 23 Jun 2018, 07:52

Ha ha typical navy there Shibbs.

Any more news Chris?
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by ChrisH » 24 Jun 2018, 01:15

They are trying a new prop on Tuesday. Not sure why. If slipped prop should replace prop hub. Let's see what the outcome is.

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by ChrisH » 27 Jun 2018, 21:19

Well seems they pit a new prop on and she is now running fine. I have videos from the seatrial showing standing starts.
As I'm not paying I'm not saying anything about prop hubs.

Now looking at the weather for the weekend.

Ian.. my app is showing high tide at 14.14 at Selsey on Sunday. But slack at 12.37. Does that sound about right? So I should aim to hit Selsey at around 12.30.?

Not sure about wind. Looks like 10 or more kts.. could be a bit lumpy?

Any thoughts recommendations if the weather and sea conditions will be suitable to collect this weekend?

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by Ianfs » 28 Jun 2018, 09:56

I'm so glad its all sorted, I bet you are excited.

Yes you are right about slack, well its kind of right. :D

Your passage is approx 54nm (27 to Selsey Bill) and you can't be sure about your speed, a lot will depend upon sea state and as you mentioned it may be lumpy, use tide times for Dover and Portsmouth. HW Dover 14.02 and HW Portsmouth 14.36. Oh and you will have Spring Tides.

According to Reeds and The Channel Pilot Slack at Looe is +0430 HW Portsmouth, but here's the thing. The West going tidal stream starts at -0135 HW Porstmouth and is predicted to be approx 0.7 -0 .8 knts so as you say, slack and moves from 108° to 276°. It changes direction at about 13.00hrs so with a little switch around before hand 12.30 ish in about right.

I've attached some pdf's with tidal streams and the Imray chart of the Bill. You'll see the Tidal diamond on the chart no 9, which corresponds to the stream information giving you direction and rate.
Imray Chart
img Selsey001.pdf
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Tidal diamond information
Selsey Tidal Streams.pdf
(454.97 KiB) Downloaded 34 times

So if you are planning to arrive at Looe buoys at 12.30hrs and from Brighton to Looe is about 27nm, at 10knts its 2hrs 42mins. at 15knts its 1hr 48mins. So your speed could be crucial to your arrival time. Read on Macduff because I don't think that timing is that crucial for a mobo, only really for yachts.
I expect you already know this but for those who don't, the numbers on the Tidal Stream charts are tidal rates and are Neaps first follow by Springs. Simply explained if it says 03,05 it means Neaps are 0.3 knts and Springs 0.5 knts.
img Selsey003.pdf
(641.1 KiB) Downloaded 32 times

img Selsey004.pdf
(547.35 KiB) Downloaded 35 times


But here's the other thing. Sundays Surface Pressure currently shows settled weather, but you see that high pressure south of Sweden extending over the UK. Well High Pressures in the Northern Hemisphere spiral winds in a clock wise direction. So if you look at the Windy link it'll show winds from NE and this will mean wind against tide from Brighton

Surface Pressure Sunday 1st July 18.gif
Surface Pressure Sunday 1st July 18.gif (132.1 KiB) Viewed 2233 times


Click the link Windy below

Windy.com

All in all as you rightly say a bit lumpy from Brighton to Selsey but if the wind stays NE and you get the Gravy Train after Selsey it'll be a nice jaunt through the Solent and up to Kemps.
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by mlines » 28 Jun 2018, 12:41

Take care, looks choppy to me (ok, so its further east)

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by ChrisH » 28 Jun 2018, 15:55

Thanks again Ian for the amazing info.
Well. The rollercoaster ride continues.
Now they want to take the prop off they just put on and repair the old prop. They probably mean change the hub I guess.

And can't do this for tomorrow.
I've had enough. Fed up with being messed around. And what will be next....Away on business next week then holibibs for 2 weeks. So all out of energy and patience so I pulled the plug and told them to send my deposit back.

Sorry for wasting your time on this Ian and everyone else who contributed. But enough is enough.

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