Planning the Dream

[del936]

Hi,

I'm new to this forum and so looking for as much advice as possible. We are looking to part live-board a 40'-50' motor cruiser in the Med from 2019. I know it's a long way off but need to get the finances etc. in place. This will involve moving home (downsizing) along with many other tasks. General idea is to live in an area for a few weeks possibly longer, explore land and sea - rinse and repeat. We would intent to have it propped for at leas 4 months over the winter for maintenance.

I am looking for as much info and advice as possible. The plan is flexible but from info gathered so far the Balearics and Greece are more interesting than south of France and Spanish mainland coast. Particular areas of interest/questions are;

- Providing its well serviced and survey is favourable is buying an older boat eg. 20 year old an issue?
- Can anyone give me experience of burn rates on twin engine vessels. I know it depends on condition of boat, length how it's driven, weight, HP etc. but trying to get some rough ideas. I need to be able to move the tub
- Whether to buy in UK and sail or get it transported over or buy in the Med
- Marina prices - my word this is a pain to find out. It seems that Greece tends to be cheaper than France and Spain. Again any comments?

I have owned a couple of small motor boats in the DISTANT past, the last one moored at Cobbs Quay, Hamworthy. I am about to do my Day skipper theory and practical next year.

I know there are a lot of questions above but my Project Manager head is in control.

Cheers in advance

[BruceK]

Hello and welcome to the forum.

I cant offer you advice on the Med but agree it is certainly a good dream. As for your question about boats, you are going to have to be far more specific if you want any valid and credible answer. For instance, your fuel question w.r.t. boat size. Anything from 15 litres per hour right through to 200 plus some. A lot depends on the type of boat as you've already admitted. However to answer some of your other questions:

- Providing its well serviced and survey is favourable is buying an older boat eg. 20 year old an issue?

Not at all. Just remember that with flipping this coin you may well buy the boat cheaper but it will almost certainly cost you a lot more to run than a new boat. So what you save on CAPEX you haemorrhage out in OPEX. And trust me on this, after 5 years of ownership you start looking for a boat that's 5 years old instead because at least then you know what to budget for bar unforeseen risk.


- Can anyone give me experience of burn rates on twin engine vessels. I know it depends on condition of boat, length how it's driven, weight, HP etc. but trying to get some rough ideas. I need to be able to move the tub

I think you mentioned flybridge somewhere? At 40 foot expect a burn of up to 200 litres and hour and probably double that at 50 foot

- Whether to buy in UK and sail or get it transported over or buy in the Med

Med for sure. The question here is where was VAT paid.

- Marina prices - my word this is a pain to find out. It seems that Greece tends to be cheaper than France and Spain. Again any comments?

yes. Goodluck! Most advicee given in that arena seems to require your physical presence in the marina you're enquiring about rather than correspondence. And I'd say find a "permanent" berth then look for a boat to fill it rather than the other way round.

[Ianfs]

We are looking to part live-board a 40'-50' motor cruiser in the Med from 2019. I know it's a long way off but need to get the finances etc. in place. This will involve moving home (downsizing) along with many other tasks. General idea is to live in an area for a few weeks possibly longer, explore land and sea - rinse and repeat. We would intent to have it propped for at leas 4 months over the winter for maintenance.

Hi del and welcome again

There are lots and lots of you tubers doing this at the moment, some of them are in mobos but most are sailing mainly because its cheaper moving around from place to place.
+1 on Bruce's advice.
If you want a bit of speed you will need some gut busting chunks of metal pumped with lots of diesel to get her out of the water and push many tons of boat along. On the other hand if you want space and economy maybe buy a displacement/semi displacement trawler type yacht, something like this....

Neptune 465

Prices are definitely cheaper abroad at the moment. UK prices have gone through the roof with new to boating buyers with money to burn and little knowledge of the costs wanting to get onto the water.

[del936]

Thanks,

I forgot to mention I did do some sailing back in the early 90's and did a weeks Day Skipper course. First day in the Solent and then around the channel Islands. I have considered a displacement vessel but have my heart set on a planning vessel.

I have a spreadsheet and researching everything, likely cost of insurance, mooring, fees, lifts, antifouling, fuel costs etc. hence joining this forum to gain yet more info. I have been a Project Manager and PM Trainer and so tend to try and plan everything in as much detail as poss and allowing for life p1ssing on my chips - excuse the expression Not only am I looking to have enough to comfortably survive each month but also around 15 - 20k contingency/extra fuel for the first year-18 months.

Hopefully, living in a smaller space won't be too much of an issue but the wife can always sleep on the fly deck or in the tender. We are likely to do around 8 weeks max at any one time.

[BruceK]

If it's just the two of you I'd say the 40-50 foot mark may just prove a handful and that the 36 foot mark will likely be the sweet spot all round for costs and handling. For two you cannot really leverage the extra space. Remember with length the volume and weight go up horrendously. For the above by a factor of 2 for maybe 8 feet extra. It's nice to have sure. But if you're buying a 20 year old boat you got to ask yourself is it worth it just so you get an extra cabin to dump stuff in which is what invariably will happen.

[del936]

Thanks, appreciate your thoughts. Having done some sums and mentally downsizing from a 50'ish the boat is more likely to be around 12-14 years. We will look at the 36 footers. I will have my, by then, 20 and 17 year old daughter coming and visiting about 4-6 weeks of the year. We could still manage with the 36' and would save money on fuel and mooring. So much to consider and I wish we were in a place to do it now but plans workout for 2019

[BruceK]

I have a 36 foot sports cruiser. It sleeps 6 in 3 doubles inside and 2 more on a cockpit dinette area which folds back into a sun lounger. I have happily gone out with 5 adults for a week (there after water capacity becomes an issue as I can only carry ~500 litres) or the family which is two adults and two kids for ~10 days without rationing water excessively.
Also at 36 foot chances are you will be on outdrives so you dont loose a lot of space for engine and shafts. I've seen plenty of 45 footers on shafts and mid engined that actually have less cabin space. Lots of pro's and cons to shaft vs outdrive though especially in a 20 year old boat. But even if the outdrives are hammered they are about 6k a pop so still works out cheaper than buying a bigger boat to reclaim the space plus OPEX costs. Plus outdrives are much more fuel economical, just a maintenance nuisance.

[del936]

OK enough with the foreplay, you got my juices flowing and so what's the boat? Tease

[BruceK]

Unfortunately you would be rather fortunate to find one here, the nearest equivalent would be a Fairline Targa 34 or something of that ilk.

She's a Formula 34PC, Florida built. An ex Med boat herself

[AlboranC]

One of the things to bear in mind is that boats kept in the med tend to have a harsher life than ones in the UK. 365 days a year of sun is harsher on a boat than 365 days a year of rain. Add to that owners that only fly in for the weekend and you can see that med boats are often in a poor state compared to the equivalent boat in the UK, so a boat that looks good in the pictures may well be a disappointment in real life. The other thing to bear in mind is do you fancy sorting out all the problems that you inevitably have on a second hand boat in a foreign country, using suppliers that don't speak your language?

Even if you include the cost of shipping a UK boat out to the Med, you may well find it works out easier and cheaper in the long run.

The Balearics are one of the most expensive places to keep a boat or visit. Winter rates are a fraction of summer prices, so perhaps you could visit and move on come April. Have a look on topboats.com which has moorings for sale and to rent in Spain and other countries, to get an idea on prices. Mainland Spain tends to be much cheaper, but obviously a lot less interesting. Ibiza marinas in the summer while a great place to go, are really not for people on a budget, especially if your boat is longer than 10m.

Before taking the plunge, perhaps you should charter a boat somewhere for a week and see what it is actually like living on a boat in the med and what you spend on fuel getting about the place?